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MDISの事件について

http://takagi-hiromitsu.jp/diary/20101204.html#p01

詳細はリンク先などを見ていただいて、思ったことを。

2000年にベースを付くって、2005年にSIして、導入。2010年にクローラーによるアクセスにより設計の不具合が発覚した。

という部分で「いま思えばあのコードはまずかったよなぁとか、あの設計じゃ同じ事起きるんじゃないかなー」って思っているエンジニアは多いんじゃないかと思います。

おそらく各図書館と、MDISとは保守契約が結ばれていたでしょうが、たとえば10億円のシステムだったとして、毎年1億円の保守費用を払って常にバージョンアップするというような契約ならまだしも、毎年1000万の保守費用で、ハード故障の仲介と、相談できますよというレベルの保守だったとしたらMDISの「動きとしては正常」的な返答を誰が責められるのでしょうか。

システムは完成!してしまえばその時点から劣化が始まります。目に見える床とかだと、痛んできたなとか、張り替えなきゃなとか思うのにソフトだからわかんないんですよね。

今回の物もASP.NET版の設計はASP時代にメジャーだったコネクションのセッション保持から、コネクションプーリング型への転換がなされたから防げるようになったんでしょうけど、それを意図してそう変更した訳じゃないので、

神田記者:時代にあった製品を納めるという部分の話なんですが、私の取材だと、岡崎の場合ASP版という図書館ソフトウェアを使っておられると、ただそれは新しいバージョンが、ASP.NET版というのがあって、これはもう2006年から各地の図書館に御社納入されていると。.NET版の方は、今回のようなアクセスがあっても問題は起こらないわけですね。なぜその改良を元のASP版、旧版の方にも加えなかったのか、それはまさに時代の要請に合わせて御社はプログラムを改良されてこられたわけなので、それを反映させればよかったんじゃないかと思うのですが、そこはいかがでしょうか?

門脇社長:まず、.NET版がですね、こういった機械的なアクセスに対応できているということは、設計上、後でわかってますけども、.NET版とASP版でしたっけ、ASP版は、設計が全く別の設計の形をとっておりまして、クローラ対策という形で.NET版を出したということではなくて

こういう記者からツッコミを受けたってそんなのどうすることも出来ないよ!としか言えないと思います。

robots.txtで対応しましたとか、コンテンツのURLを切り替えて対応しましたとかプログラムは修正出来ないという状況で、とりあえず眼前の状況に対応してくれと言われればこれくらいが対応の限界だと思います。

アプリケーションがSIした組み込みなのがいけないと言われてもASP(ApplicationServiceProvider)型が最善とは思いませんし、図書館毎にカスタマイズして導入しているような今回の場合だとASPでとなってもそうそううまくいくわけでもないです。それはAzure等のクラウドとか呼ばれている物にしたって何も状況は変わりません。

ではどうすればいいのか。

少なくともインストールした後もこれを「瑕疵だ瑕疵だ」とか「瑕疵範囲外なので調べられません」とか「プログラムを変更しない範囲で調査」とか言わないで済む必要があります。これは契約の甲乙両方が努力する必要がありますし、年度が替わっていたら新しく売り上げが立たないことに本気で調査なんて出来ない訳です。

「結局金か!」となるのがつらいところですが、常にバージョンアップする仕組みにしておいてもこちらの顧客からのアラートが最優先になって調査されるわけではないので、MS等がやっているようなインシデント(1回何万円)等と決めておいて、最優先に調査、変更する予算提示をするというメニューくらいしかないのかと思います。

別のプロジェクトに関わっているのに、昔やったでしょとか言って今すぐに無料で調査してよっとか言われて困っているエンジニアは何処にだって居るはずなのです。

投稿日時 : 2010年12月6日 13:23

コメントを追加

# re: MDISの事件について 2010/12/06 23:49 ちゃっぴ

おっしゃることはごもっともで、私も同意見なので否定する気はないんですが。。。

自分が気になっているのは脆弱性です。脆弱性の判断基準が明確にされていない問題はありますが、少なくとも脆弱性については瑕疵担保責任問うようになるべきでしょう。

# re: MDISの事件について 2010/12/07 0:14

後段の結論については概ね同意。
発注側・受注側双方の努力が必要ですね。

ただ、2点不正確な部分があるようなのでツッコミ入れさせていただきます。

> 毎年1億円の保守費用を払って常にバージョンアップするというような契約ならまだしも、
> 毎年1000万の保守費用で、ハード故障の仲介と、相談できますよというレベルの保守だったとしたら

ところがどっこい、契約内容はともかく、少なくとも金額に関しては岡崎市は毎年1億円以上払っていたんですねー。保守だけでなくリース費込みですけど。

> ASP時代にメジャーだったコネクションのセッション保持

それって ASP の時にもメジャーではなかったと思いますが…。もし本当にそれがメジャーだったとしたら、ASP アプリは同じ不具合が世界中で頻発することになっているはずですね。
MDIS も館内業務の C/S アプリの設計を継承したと言ってましたし。

# re: MDISの事件について 2010/12/07 10:17 中博俊

>自分が気になっているのは脆弱性です。脆弱性の判断基準が明確にされていない問題はありますが、少なくとも脆弱性については瑕疵担保責任問うようになるべきでしょう。

脆弱性が発見されたからと言って1年を超えてメーカーに瑕疵責任といって追求するのはMSならまだしも一般企業同士の契約では無理があると思います。
2000年当時であれば、SQLインジェクションすらいまいち理解されていない状況でしたし、社内用アプリだから気にしなくて良いというのは今でも散見する事だと思います。
WinFormアプリだから無視して良いとか・・・

それを流用する前提で外部向けを作ったからといってそのあたり全部直すお金が出ないのであればそれを対応するのは酷という物だと思います。




>ところがどっこい、契約内容はともかく、少なくとも金額に関しては岡崎市は毎年1億円以上払っていたんですねー。保守だけでなくリース費込みですけど。

ここでは岡崎の例で金額設定していません。10億のシステムで1億の継続的マイグレーションモデルと、とりあえず保守ですよっていう契約を退避させたかっただけです。

>> ASP時代にメジャーだったコネクションのセッション保持
>それって ASP の時にもメジャーではなかったと思いますが…。もし本当にそれがメジャーだったとしたら、ASP アプリは同じ不具合が世界中で頻発することになっているはずですね。

ASP+Oracle(OO4O)での外部向けでない場合にはコネクションをセッションに保持するのは結構普通でした。わたしはOO4Oアプリ作ったこと無いのでなんともですが。
Oracleはコネクションプーリングの仕組みがいまいちだったのか無かったのか、とにかく接続にやたら時間がかかっていたような覚えがあります。

# re: MDISの事件について 2010/12/12 10:28 山田

契約的にはMDISに問題なかったと思います。
(日本だと顧客から責められて無料改修なんて良くある話ですが・・・)

この事件で一番問題だったのは、当人達もソフトに問題があると理解していたのに
利用者に責任を押し付けて逮捕までさせたことにあるかと思います(警察が出てきた時点でゴメンナチャイすべきだった)。
ソフトを作ったのは俺じゃないし、当時の担当者もいないから知らん!
ってMDISの中の人は言うかもしれませんが、技術で人の暮らしを楽にするのが技術者の使命であるのに
こういった対応を平然と技術者がするような世の中になれば
その国のテクノロジは衰退するだろうという危惧を覚えました。

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# My brother suggested I might like this blog. He was entirely right. This post actually made my day. You can not imagine just how much time I had spent for this information! Thanks! 2022/03/23 13:42 My brother suggested I might like this blog. He wa

My brother suggested I might like this blog. He was entirely right.
This post actually made my day. You can not imagine
just how much time I had spent for this information! Thanks!

# My brother suggested I might like this blog. He was entirely right. This post actually made my day. You can not imagine just how much time I had spent for this information! Thanks! 2022/03/23 13:43 My brother suggested I might like this blog. He wa

My brother suggested I might like this blog. He was entirely right.
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just how much time I had spent for this information! Thanks!

# My brother suggested I might like this blog. He was entirely right. This post actually made my day. You can not imagine just how much time I had spent for this information! Thanks! 2022/03/23 13:44 My brother suggested I might like this blog. He wa

My brother suggested I might like this blog. He was entirely right.
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just how much time I had spent for this information! Thanks!

# My brother suggested I might like this blog. He was entirely right. This post actually made my day. You can not imagine just how much time I had spent for this information! Thanks! 2022/03/23 13:45 My brother suggested I might like this blog. He wa

My brother suggested I might like this blog. He was entirely right.
This post actually made my day. You can not imagine
just how much time I had spent for this information! Thanks!

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